A student writes:

When one has seen through the illusion presented by Pratityasamutpada – dependent origination – when we are no longer buffeted by attachment or aversion, what lies beyond avidya/delusion?

Lama Shenpen responds:

Then there is only vidya – the scales have fallen from your eyes.  You wouldn’t attach to things if you no longer had avidya distorting your vision – you would have pure vision and it would be glorious!

Student:

And what about that stage when we are close to that but not quite there, surely there is the danger of beginning to feel empty of any purpose? I’m noticing that I’m becoming increasingly weary of trying to understand, to find Truth. Perhaps realising that there is no “masterplan” and that perhaps ultimately there is no real “purpose” leaves me very weary…

Lama Shenpen:

We are always so close to it because it’s our very nature – so in a way there is not such thing as not being ‘quite there’ – it is more a case of still being deluded by avidya, and yes that is a very empty and purposeless place to be.

Then maybe we relax enough for vidya to break through but if we then try to somehow grasp or subtly hold on to it – it eludes us and we fall between two stools – disillusioned with samsara but unable to simply be vidya – and yes meditators can find themselves getting depressed and demotivated at that point.

That is why it is so crucial to trust in the power of the adhistana [powerful blessing] of the Guru – faith and prajna need to be balanced through right mindfulness (smrti). It becomes crucial and one way of dealing with the situation is to remember the two accumulations – there is a lot to that – accumulating punya and purifying veils in order to support the prajna (wisdom) process.

Student:

I would think at that point of being beyond avidya that there is truly nothing to do?

Lama Shenpen:

Vidya is not really a point of progress along the path – it is our True Nature and so of course there is nothing to do.  As long as avidya is not recognised for what it is, there is still something to do in a way because we are seeing things wrongly.

Student:

Yet we must surely still be able to enjoy something that uplifts us…

Lama Shenpen:

Well, it is all the bliss of nirvana when there is only vidya – you wouldn’t need uplifting, you would be busy uplifting the rest of the rest of the Universe!

Student:

…Something that heartens us, something that makes us feel good and wholesome?

Lama Shenpen:

There would only be heart and wholesomeness.

Student:

So what motivates us? Where is the intention to do anything? To get out of bed in the morning, to go for a walk, enjoy an ice cream or read a book? If we have gone beyond suffering and seeking pleasure, what is there to do in this life?

Lama Shenpen:

Enjoyment – Openness Clarity and Sensitivity unleashed!

Student:

Perhaps the answer lies in understanding what it truly means to be able to enjoy dhammas without attachment?

Lama Shenpen:

The answer lies in being able to distinguish vidya from avidya and not confusing a beginner’s understanding with the real thing.  For a beginner’s understanding it sounds as if one might get bored – that is a sign of an incomplete understanding, lack of realisation.

Realisation is a long time coming for almost all practitioners so we need to just keep going – spiraling around the different teachings deepening our understanding through listening, studying, reflection, asking questions and meditation – accustoming ourselves. Really taking on board the full significance of what we are learning. It is a long process – maybe lifetimes – the subtler the lesson we need to learn the longer it is likely to take.

Lama Shenpen Hookham

Find out more here about how to join the AHS and become of student of Lama Shenpen and join the Living the Awakened Heart Training – the structured, comprehensive, supported, distance learning programme in Buddhist meditation, reflection and insight. The training, which is open to all, brings the profound Dzogchen and Mahamudra teachings to a Western audience in an experiential, accessible way, through spiral learning. Full details at www.ahs.org.uk/training